Author Topic: New Development: Tri stereo chorus  (Read 1466 times)

fair.child

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New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« on: January 10, 2023, 01:26:13 AM »
I have been itched to get hands on That 80 Rack Chorus. Iím currently working on learning the design behind it with a hope to recreate it or even design a better one. I need some help on figuring out the block diagram of the Fulltone TERC to start. Here are some pictures of TERC that I have pulled out. It sounds instant Landau/Huff/Lukather for sure. Also, it is based on TSC-618 or CS-5 Songbird Dytronics which is a legendary unit.

















It looks like there are some Op amps and BBD ICs. Three BBD for sure with share intensity/speed. The chorus part I think something can be tweaked with proper calibration like flanger. Also, thereís VU meter to show the output levels L/R. The input can be instrument or line. It looks like if itís line instrument then it goes to buffer.

If anyone can chime in the idea of building great TSC then I would appreciate the help

mauman

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2023, 10:32:51 AM »
There was one more Tri Stereo Chorus clone, The Wave, by an Italian company (Shiva/Red Seven.)  They built 35 and then moved on to other things: https://www.redseven-amplification.com/the-wave-t-a-m-c/  .  No schematics or internal pics, unfortunately.  They say their Lil'Wave chorus pedal (still made) is a derivative and uses one of the three delay lines in a mono format.  For a DSP version, Eventide's TriCeraChorus is supposed to be pretty good.

zombie_rock123

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2023, 10:57:49 AM »
Would the Jurgen Haible Triple Chorus be a starting point? Pretty sure the schematics are still out there. Not sure of the Fulltone unit would share the same blocks but it's pretty well documented last time I was marveling at it.
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fair.child

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2023, 11:53:07 AM »
There was one more Tri Stereo Chorus clone, The Wave, by an Italian company (Shiva/Red Seven.)  They built 35 and then moved on to other things: https://www.redseven-amplification.com/the-wave-t-a-m-c/  .  No schematics or internal pics, unfortunately.  They say their Lil'Wave chorus pedal (still made) is a derivative and uses one of the three delay lines in a mono format.  For a DSP version, Eventide's TriCeraChorus is supposed to be pretty good.

Mike, I contacted Red Seven and they have no Shiva left. If they have, then I'd love to get that. I think that is also built based on Dytronics/Chuck Monte design. I talked with Chuck last year and he said that it's really hard to find one and he sold his last unit last year. He is retired and doesn't recall any info related the TSC. The best luck to recreate it or study the design will be through TERC or something similar. I have Eventide TCC which is great and that is currently used in my Dann Huff's rack. However, it is still big mystery to me to unveil TERC or TSC.

fair.child

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2023, 11:59:26 AM »
Would the Jurgen Haible Triple Chorus be a starting point? Pretty sure the schematics are still out there. Not sure of the Fulltone unit would share the same blocks but it's pretty well documented last time I was marveling at it.

This is good info though not really TSC. The concept theory is there. Here are some couple references that I got so far

https://gearspace.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/980440-any-one-know-how-make-tri-stereo-chorus-effect.html
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=30909

In 2012, LaceSensor also interested with the same topic. I'm not sure if he got it or he dropped the effort due to he found something else

https://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=4942.0

Bio77

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2023, 01:25:01 PM »
Any idea what the vacrols are for?  That and the number of trim knobs are intriguing.

fair.child

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2023, 01:51:50 PM »
Any idea what the vacrols are for?  That and the number of trim knobs are intriguing.

The trimmers are intended for calibration. There are certain frequencies to get that schmo which it can definitely get calibrated by reading the voltages or look over the signals on the scope.

For the vactrols, that I have no idea. Again, still mystery to me.

Bio77

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2023, 02:04:47 PM »
Yeah, for the trims, looks like the six around the BBDs are clock freq and bias for each 3007, 3101 pair.  The two at the front and the other one, I have no idea.  The vacrols, seriously, no idea  ;D  Looking forward to seeing this develop.

mauman

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2023, 02:11:26 PM »
There are a few short threads on the original TSC over at fsb.org, search there for "Tri Stereo Chorus."  One has some interesting details cut & pasted from other threads on harmonycentral and Reddit.

fair.child

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2023, 02:27:57 PM »
There are a few short threads on the original TSC over at fsb.org, search there for "Tri Stereo Chorus."  One has some interesting details cut & pasted from other threads on harmonycentral and Reddit.

That would be this link https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=30909

There is another resource that explaining how chorus BBD works but I can't recall it. I'll keep research on that. The best way to trace is to use photoshop (I guess) and start to match the top and bottom layers. After that, then I can work on the schematic. Once the schematic is complete then I can study more the concept behind it. It'll take some time for sure.

madbean

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2023, 03:40:14 PM »
Looks like the three chorus sections are identical so if you trace one you get them all. The vactrols are might be for the three intensity knobs if I'm guessing. Taking the output of the LFO to split it to the three clocks maybe?

gordo

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2023, 04:40:41 PM »
Or do they use the vactrols for bypass similar to how Fender and Mesa used them for preamp switching?
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fair.child

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2023, 04:55:55 PM »
Looks like the three chorus sections are identical so if you trace one you get them all. The vactrols are might be for the three intensity knobs if I'm guessing. Taking the output of the LFO to split it to the three clocks maybe?

That is correct. The chorus section looks like are the same with different calibration


madbean

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2023, 06:21:08 PM »
Just as a total aside, I put in quite a bit of work last year on a DC-2 implementation using the PT2399. I got it sounding pretty good but in the end decided it was probably too many parts to warrant it (over an FV-1). I wonder though if that idea could be expanded into the TriChorus type thing and then come up with a solution to offset the LFOs from each other.

I read some of the stuff on FSB and one thing I'm not clear on is the third chorus circuit. Is that output being fed to the Left and Right chorus inputs? Or, does it run in parallel with them?

fair.child

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Re: New Development: Tri stereo chorus
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2023, 02:15:25 PM »
Is that output being fed to the Left and Right chorus inputs? Or, does it run in parallel with them?

In general, I think it will run in parallel with Left and Right. There are two modes that you can stack them together as well. I'm still in the process tracing the board. Just had to do more photoshop and put them on transfer paper.