Anyone hit with the virus out there? I got diagnosed positive at the beginning of the week despite being ULTRA careful. Mask, sanitizer, hand washing so much I'm surprised I have washed away my callouses. You CANNOT be too careful.
Hope it goes well, best wishes and take care, best wishes for a smooth recovery!
My son and wife who live in the States (Missouri) just had a test and are symptomatic.
Oh jeeeebus Gordo, I'm sorry to hear that. Had any symptoms or just a routine test?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hope it doesn't hit you too hard gordo.
Take care man, keep a close eye on stuff and keep in touch with your doctor.
Drop us a line now and again to let us know you are alright.
We have been fortunate so far. My wife's sister had it several months ago. She said it sucked for several days but she eventually recovered.
Sorry to hear that. Keep yourself well and rest up!
We had a bit of a scare with our daughter. She got sick about 10 days ago and there was an exposure at school. Thankfully, she tested negative. The school has gone back to hybrid schedule for now and I think it's the right thing to do. Tenn cases are really getting high. Nationally we are at almost 200k infections a day, I hear.
I'm kinda dreading this but I think I'm going to have to tell my family we shouldn't visit for Xmas.
My Son tested positive on September 16th, so the three of us were in lock down for almost three weeks. My wife and I also tested positive but she was the only one to show symptoms. For three days she was in bed with flu like symptoms while my son and i took care of her and played nintendo.
Since then my wife and i have had shortness of breath but otherwise back to full health.
Hopefully it is mild for you.
Quote from: madbean on November 23, 2020, 12:24:45 AM
Sorry to hear that. Keep yourself well and rest up!
We had a bit of a scare with our daughter. She got sick about 10 days ago and there was an exposure at school. Thankfully, she tested negative. The school has gone back to hybrid schedule for now and I think it's the right thing to do. Tenn cases are really getting high. Nationally we are at almost 200k infections a day, I hear.
I'm kinda dreading this but I think I'm going to have to tell my family we shouldn't visit for Xmas.
We are at over 250k nationally now, it damn near doubles weekly.
Not visiting anyone for Thanksgiving and Christmas is, sadly, the right thing to do. I fortunately, not everyone agrees and we will have another wicked out break and deaths in about another two weeks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gordo hang in there - lay low and keep track of your breathing and stay in touch with your doctor as frequently as practical.
I was sick in March but couldn't get tested. I probably caught it pre lockdown which came about a week before I got sick. Back in my 20s I had both pneumonia and influenza, and what I experienced this year was like neither, and not like a cold; more like chemical inhalation injury with feverish symptoms and severe exhaustion. There were no tests in my area at the time. I was in peak condition before I was sick, while I was sick I lost 20 lbs during it and now have lingering severe respiratory issues and have had to stop doing sports. (I'm 44) My life is changed. I have a comprehensive pulmonary function test in December. I have been cleared for heart damage supposedly which is great news so I consider myself lucky. My insurance through work is low quality and I have $1000's in medical bills
If anyone reading this was wondering if it's "real" or think it can't happen to you...guess again
Sorry if this is a downer it's just been a real year.
Strategy
Quote from: madbean on November 23, 2020, 12:24:45 AM
Sorry to hear that. Keep yourself well and rest up!
We had a bit of a scare with our daughter. She got sick about 10 days ago and there was an exposure at school. Thankfully, she tested negative. The school has gone back to hybrid schedule for now and I think it's the right thing to do. Tenn cases are really getting high. Nationally we are at almost 200k infections a day, I hear.
I'm kinda dreading this but I think I'm going to have to tell my family we shouldn't visit for Xmas.
For years i've wished there was some way i could forego much of the month of December and what it entails, looks like this year i'm there.
dave
Scary stuff! Wishing everyone well, physically and mentally.
Quote from: jimilee on November 23, 2020, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: madbean on November 23, 2020, 12:24:45 AM
Sorry to hear that. Keep yourself well and rest up!
We had a bit of a scare with our daughter. She got sick about 10 days ago and there was an exposure at school. Thankfully, she tested negative. The school has gone back to hybrid schedule for now and I think it's the right thing to do. Tenn cases are really getting high. Nationally we are at almost 200k infections a day, I hear.
I'm kinda dreading this but I think I'm going to have to tell my family we shouldn't visit for Xmas.
We are at over 250k nationally now, it damn near doubles weekly.
Not visiting anyone for Thanksgiving and Christmas is, sadly, the right thing to do. I fortunately, not everyone agrees and we will have another wicked out break and deaths in about another two weeks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On track to pop the million a day bubble in, two weeks
Take care.
dave
I'm pulling for you, Gordo! I hope you have no symptoms and definitely no lasting issues.
Somehow haven't gotten it yet, but I suppose it's because we've been pretty low-key since mid-March. A good buddy of mine is a corrections officer, and he got it way back in April. My wife has had some coworkers get it. And multiple of her college friends have lost family members to it. Crazy shit.
Stay safe, everybody!
Hope your doing ok gordo, and everyone else whos had it glad your still here. I work at the Detroit VA hospital and have been knee deep in it since late february. My wife wife works at the Detroit Childrens Hospital and luckily no one in our house has had it, especially since my wife and youngest daughter have really bad asthma. I have seen things that changed me this year, and we arent seeing anyone for thanksgiving and likely no one on christmas. My kids district hasn't been in person since march and as much as a burden as its been on us having to work in the hospital its been a blessing cause no one has been sick. Hope you all stay safe out there in the coming weeks, I fear the dread coming in January after the holidays. Hope to see a lot of build reports and no bad news.
all the best and a speedy recovery Gordo and everyone else affected.
Austria has been ignoring the exponential increase in cases since spring (other than increasing steadily - like +5 every week - it basically multiplies itself in the the same timeframe) as numbers were still low overall. Until the point were it hits you hard and fast. We are back to lockdown and most things are closed now. Despite masks, regular hand sanitations and keeping distance, apparently things need to get worse before they improve (numbers are slowly getting better after first week of hard lockdown). Nevertheless, reports of affected people at work (we're one of the largest employers around) are coming in, also of people I work with directly.
Not sure how this will play out and frankly I'm sceptic about immunisation shots after such a short time of development and trials. Not my area of expertise, but something I'll read up on before commiting. I just hope that things improve enough so I can visit family on christmas. It would suck to stay home alone because of this (although my german coworkers already plan to stay due to possible quarantines when crossing borders).
Stay safe everyone
As of yesterday, Australia has 13 cases of COVID. Good luck guys.
Immunologist here. The vaccine data are better than anyone could have hoped for. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are very similar platforms (mRNA), so in essence, they are independent confirmations of each other. While the US has been an absolute shitshow for CoV2, this same shitshow is ideal for clinical trials. You need circulating virus and cases to test a vaccine. The US has plenty of that, which accelerated the trials beyond expectations. The Astroazeneca vaccine is promising, too. Early data indicate that it has slightly lower efficacy (albeit, really good), but it is more stable and cheaper to produce. It seems this will be the form that much of the world will receive.
It's safe to say that we've moved beyond a vaccine challenge and progress to the second stage- a vaccination challenge.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Stay strong.
Quote from: DLW on November 24, 2020, 09:14:35 PM
Immunologist here. The vaccine data are better than anyone could have hoped for. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are very similar platforms (mRNA), so in essence, they are independent confirmations of each other. While the US has been an absolute shitshow for CoV2, this same shitshow is ideal for clinical trials. You need circulating virus and cases to test a vaccine. The US has plenty of that, which accelerated the trials beyond expectations. The Astroazeneca vaccine is promising, too. Early data indicate that it has slightly lower efficacy (albeit, really good), but it is more stable and cheaper to produce. It seems this will be the form that much of the world will receive.
It's safe to say that we've moved beyond a vaccine challenge and progress to the second stage- a vaccination challenge.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Stay strong.
thanks for the insight. good to hear
Thanks for the kind words everyone, it's much appreciated. I'm doing quite well with mostly recurring tired spells and I've totally lost all sense of taste and smell. Compared to many peoples symptoms/condition I seem to be sliding thru fairly unscathed. My wife has now tested positive and she's currently on immuno-therapy for lung cancer so am keeping a close eye on her. Even in her case the fever subsided after a few days and she's been out walking the dog in an effort to keep the lungs cleared.
The boredom of quarantine is setting in but I've been working from home since the beginning of March so it's not too drastic a change.
I've been putzing around with replacing the blown output transformer in my homemade low power tweed twin and the new tranny should be here before the end of the week. It's a crazy good sounding amp that's been torched for a few years now. These cake pan builds are a PITA to troubleshoot and service, but I certainly have the time lately. I've also had an old Harmony H303B "widowmaker" amp for ages that I've been researching how to make non-lethal and found an iso transformer and new caps that didn't break the bank. I'm amazed more people weren't killed to death using these things. It's a noisy but cool little amp with the original Jensen speaker and original tubes. A lot of bad info out there on how to correct it but robrobinette.com has been a great resource for all things tube.
Stay healthy everyone and again I stress that you really CANNOT be too careful so keep that in mind at all times. We'll get thru this.
I don't want to freak anyone out, but today I saw this 60 Minutes piece the long term effects some people are experiencing. And, they are worrying. These are people who had rather mild cases but are now suffering from some kind of long term immunological compromise. I think it's important to keep aware of this. Maybe someone here knows more about it.
[youtube width=640]0gLmMPOHDwM[/youtube]
Glad you are on the mend Gordo. I hope your wife keeps felling better.
I am super worried about the next month. I saw on the news that a crazy amount of people are traveling this week, which should mix up the the positivity rates across the US. This virus was doing just fine without the extra entropy.
Previously, I was hopeful. Halloween in LA county was cancelled and people actually gave it up. My neighborhood usually has an insane number of kids, but this year nobody. I think the vaccine news gives people a false sense of security. It's a shame because we are really close to turning this around.
Re: Madbean's post, I think this will be bubbling up as a major public health issue that may affect a generation of people, the way post-polio syndrome has / had.
I read an article in Wall Street Journal this morning covering post-acute covid syndrome and there was one in the New Yorker a couple of weeks ago. This is where I'm at - inflammatory response that has never gone away long after I cleared the virus. For me it comes in the form of new asthma and constant chest pain, shortness of breath. I consider myself one of the lucky ones, the WSJ article describes people with chronic GI dysfunction, chronic fatigue, and more severe memory problems, etc.
Strategy
Post stuff is worrisome at the very least. It definitely bugs me that there are a proposed 4M people going air travel ALONE over the next few days. That's insane. I get how desperate folks have become but even given the mish mash of info out there I'd think smart people would lay low. Even before this hit me I snagged a little turkey and figured the wife and I would cocoon. I'd love to be able to go see family up in Canada this Christmas too but it's just not going to be realistic. We really are close to containing this with a vaccine but nobody wants to die in the meantime.
The only positive outcome of my situation (barring post-complications) is that I drop off the wait list for vaccine and cease to be an incubator. Certainly doesn't mean I can raw dog and I think this is an important distinction.
The politics of dancing.
A severe aside to this thread is my mention of the Rob Robinette site. Some seriously cool info for any tube amp freaks out there. As I dig deeper into this guys wealth of knowledge I'm jones'ing to build another amp big time...
There is still a lot to learn about the "COVID long haulers" and will be a major scientific investment in the future. One thing that I find interesting is the well-established correlation with severe viral infection (Rhinoviruses) early in life and development of asthma. Although adult onset asthma is pretty rare under normal circumstances, perhaps some of the "long hauler" are experiencing a form of asthma as a consequence of their severe lung infection (i.e. COVID).
You know what I do appreciate about opening this thread is the intense amount of knowledge amongst us pedal geeks. It would seem that the "pedal" part of us also reflects our quest for knowledge in general.
I don't want to get all gushy here, but it's really humbling and inspiring to be part of such an inspired portion of the population. Everyone should have this sort of outlet and the resources attached to it. I'd like to think we represent what "should" happen under troubleshooting circumstances.
I love this place.
Quote from: gordo on November 25, 2020, 03:21:35 AM
You know what I do appreciate about opening this thread is the intense amount of knowledge amongst us pedal geeks. It would seem that the "pedal" part of us also reflects our quest for knowledge in general.
I don't want to get all gushy here, but it's really humbling and inspiring to be part of such an inspired portion of the population. Everyone should have this sort of outlet and the resources attached to it. I'd like to think we represent what "should" happen under troubleshooting circumstances.
I love this place.
You put it perfectly, this place is the best.
Quote from: jjjimi84 on November 25, 2020, 08:29:59 AM
Quote from: gordo on November 25, 2020, 03:21:35 AM
You know what I do appreciate about opening this thread is the intense amount of knowledge amongst us pedal geeks. It would seem that the "pedal" part of us also reflects our quest for knowledge in general.
I don't want to get all gushy here, but it's really humbling and inspiring to be part of such an inspired portion of the population. Everyone should have this sort of outlet and the resources attached to it. I'd like to think we represent what "should" happen under troubleshooting circumstances.
I love this place.
You put it perfectly, this place is the best.
I couldn't agree more. I haven't gotten it, but I do worry about the long and short term memory affects. I have enough issues as it is, as I'm sure others do too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DLW, thanks for those encouraging words.
This whole thing reminds me of why anti-vaxxers piss me off so much. My grandmother had polio as a child, and had reduced lung capacity her entire life as a result (didn't stop her smoking, though... :( ) and if it wasn't for vaccines, we'd still have polio, and all kinds of other viruses that crippled nations worse than even CoVID has, like smallpox. Bubonic plague was bacterial, not viral, IIRC, but it still killed an estimated 30% to 60% of the European population. The modern world was getting dangerously complacent about these things. Even Ebola seems to have been seen as just one of those odd things that only happen in Africa.
Quote from: alanp on November 26, 2020, 05:25:47 AM
DLW, thanks for those encouraging words.
This whole thing reminds me of why anti-vaxxers piss me off so much. My grandmother had polio as a child, and had reduced lung capacity her entire life as a result (didn't stop her smoking, though... :( ) and if it wasn't for vaccines, we'd still have polio, and all kinds of other viruses that crippled nations worse than even CoVID has, like smallpox. Bubonic plague was bacterial, not viral, IIRC, but it still killed an estimated 30% to 60% of the European population. The modern world was getting dangerously complacent about these things. Even Ebola seems to have been seen as just one of those odd things that only happen in Africa.
Ebola will remain one of those things that only happen in Africa because its too potent to travel that far. It kills too quickly. A corona infectee can travel for a much longer time before the symptoms show. And while I agree that anti-vaxxers are the epitome of stupid, with tried and long time proven vaccines that is, these are fairly new vaccines, of which the long term side effects are not known yet. I am kinda iffy on the idea of being forced to be injected with something that might have unknown long term side effects. For now the point is moot anyway as I am probably far down the priority list of people to be injected first. This is a process which will take a long time.
Quote from: Muadzin on December 09, 2020, 10:39:46 AM
... I am kinda iffy on the idea of being forced to be injected with something that might have unknown long term side effects. ...
Everybody should question
forced injections, but I would be interested to learn which countries are actually going that way. I am in a risk group, and I'll personally take the known and unknown side effects of a professionally developed, tested, and risk-assessed vaccin over the already-known side effects of a covid infection any day.
Quote from: WormBoy on December 09, 2020, 03:54:39 PM
Quote from: Muadzin on December 09, 2020, 10:39:46 AM
... I am kinda iffy on the idea of being forced to be injected with something that might have unknown long term side effects. ...
Everybody should question forced injections, but I would be interested to learn which countries are actually going that way. I am in a risk group, and I'll personally take the known and unknown side effects of a professionally developed, tested, and risk-assessed vaccin over the already-known side effects of a covid infection any day.
I'm right there with you on this.
I have not seen anything about governments forcing vaccinations anywhere, but I have seen speculation that employers may require it before returning to the office. That is a different matter entirely and between employers and staff. Perhaps that is what Maudzin is referring to?
At any rate... Gordo how are you doing man, any updates?
I don't see them being able to "force" anyone into a vaccine but then again it might become mandatory if you travel by air or attend large gatherings (ie: concerts). Then the lawsuits and bickering will start and it will devolve into yet more stuff to divide the country/planet.
Me, I'm doing really well, thanks! I still have no sense of taste or smell but it seems to be inching back slowly. I've since tested negative after two positives and am not noticing any other symptoms. I'd consider myself quite lucky.
My wife took a pretty nasty beating with high fever and more aches and pains but she's on the mend and doing well.
Glad to hear you're all well Gordo!
What a relief.
This coming Friday I have my first Pulmonary Function Test. Depending on the outcome of the first one, I might have to do something called a "methacoline challenge" that involves testing while asthma attack is somehow induced. On the horizon, a friend who teaches medical informatics at the state medical school, may refer me to one of their research studies on "post-acute covid syndrome". I am happy to donate my time or blood sample to becoming a data point in research, if it will help further the science about "covid long haulers."
Glad to hear you are better Gordo and I hope your wife gets there too, without lasting side or long haul effects (and to Strategy and anyone else who is directly affected).
My son and his wife (living in Missouri), her parents and much of the relis all have or had it and it's pretty gut wrenching to see and watch from the distance without even being able to do something apart from the face time on the screen, not that I could do much if I was there in person. They all went through it without needing to being hospitalised at this stage, so that's good.
Quote from: gordo on December 09, 2020, 04:57:13 PM
I don't see them being able to "force" anyone into a vaccine but then again it might become mandatory if you travel by air or attend large gatherings (ie: concerts). Then the lawsuits and bickering will start and it will devolve into yet more stuff to divide the country/planet.
Me, I'm doing really well, thanks! I still have no sense of taste or smell but it seems to be inching back slowly. I've since tested negative after two positives and am not noticing any other symptoms. I'd consider myself quite lucky.
My wife took a pretty nasty beating with high fever and more aches and pains but she's on the mend and doing well.
I heard mention of a covid card you get after you get vaccinated.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Working for the Dept. of Veterans Affairs and being onder the DOD, we are required to take a flu shot, so you can imagine how its gonna shake down here for the covid vaccine. Either way I'll be glad to take it, whats really the alternative anyways?
My wife is doing a post-covid study as well and I might jump on board if they need anyone else. I suppose I can get to the back of the line for vaccine but have no issues with it either. I get a flu shot every year and have for a long time now. I still get the flu but it's been mild and if I get knocked out it's a few days at worst. I guess that's the point. I've also been keeping up with shingles and pneumonia vaccinations as well. Bring it on. The less crap I have to worry about the better.
Strategy, hope the study goes well. It's always nice to know you're part of a solution than a problem but inducing an asthma attack....sounds creepy.
One of the things the wife and I DID do right, I think, was to stay fairly active. The weather was still warm enough that I dragged a ladder out and washed all the windows and got everything ready for winter. It was exhausting but it kept the blood going and without overdoing it I think it kept crap from settling in the lungs as well. Kept me from losing my marbles as well.
My mom shared a Thanksgiving dinner table with 4 of her friends. Everyone except for my mom got infected.
One person (the presumed Patient Zero of the event) is currently on a ventilator with 100% oxygen assistance (she is not expected to recover), and another is in the hospital for a second time after being unable to stand up following repeated collapses (they sent her home after one day the first time she went, but now they have a bed for her to stay longer). The other two infected individuals have been successful at caring for themselves at home.
My mom has had two negative tests, but the first one was garbage (done at a local pharmacy where they make you swab yourself).
Oh man, sorry to hear about your mom's friend. It's really messed up how, with a hopefully small percentage of people, this thing can go horribly sideways. And it happens very quickly.
Glad you and the wife are doing well, Gordo! Thanks so much for this thread, it has been quite sobering. I was shocked how many people here have had first hand experience with this. I am extremely careful and I imagine that others here are also. I guess that when community spread reaches the levels that it's at now, every activity is a gamble.
Sorry, to hear about your mom's friend, Eric. That's horrible.
Quote from: gordo on December 09, 2020, 09:56:40 PM
Bring it on. The less crap I have to worry about the better.
this ^^^^^ X100
Quote from: WormBoy on December 09, 2020, 03:54:39 PM
Everybody should question forced injections, but I would be interested to learn which countries are actually going that way. I am in a risk group, and I'll personally take the known and unknown side effects of a professionally developed, tested, and risk-assessed vaccin over the already-known side effects of a covid infection any day.
Thing is, I don't trust big pharma even at the best of times. There is too much money for them to be made at stake and too much pressure from governments to come up with something for them to not resist cutting corners. If I have to be a guinea pig then at least pay me for the risk. Which I have done in the past.
Quote from: Matmosphere on December 09, 2020, 04:49:27 PM
I'm right there with you on this.
I have not seen anything about governments forcing vaccinations anywhere, but I have seen speculation that employers may require it before returning to the office. That is a different matter entirely and between employers and staff. Perhaps that is what Maudzin is referring to?
Which is a form of privatized enforcement of behalf of a government which can then maintain plausible deniability. And the form I am most worried about. Because I work parttime as a gym instructor. And I can totally see the company asking for mandatory vaccinations in order to be allowed to work. If its not to be mandatory by the
Yeah, it will be interesting to see how different countries, professions, etc. handle the vaccine situation. I can understand people being worried about efficacy and potential side effects in such a short rollout time. I'm not concerned about it personally but this vaccine is going to bring on a whole 'nother facet to COIVD.
Quote from: Muadzin on December 11, 2020, 08:44:49 PM
Thing is, I don't trust big pharma even at the best of times. There is too much money for them to be made at stake and too much pressure from governments to come up with something for them to not resist cutting corners. If I have to be a guinea pig then at least pay me for the risk. Which I have done in the past.
Skepticism is healthy. However, skepticism without diligence is the purest form of ignorance. If you believe government is pressuring Pharma to push out a dangerous medicine, put in an honest effort to determine whether or not there is evidence to support that claim. Also, give equal weight to evidence that refutes the claim. Finally, respect that the drug approval process has yielded many, many more safe and effective therapeutics than not, so the burden of proof is on you.
Quote from: Muadzin on December 11, 2020, 08:44:49 PM
Which is a form of privatized enforcement of behalf of a government which can then maintain plausible deniability. And the form I am most worried about. Because I work parttime as a gym instructor. And I can totally see the company asking for mandatory vaccinations in order to be allowed to work. If its not to be mandatory by the
If you want the benefits of living in a society, you have to accept the responsibilities that go along with it. This is a battle that you will not win.
And to be clear, I am in no way, shape or form a Big Pharma shill. I hate them as much as anybody. However, my hatred for Pharma stems from their abuse of inelastic demand (i.e. people will rationally give anything and everything short of their life for a life-saving drug) and ironclad patent protections. This creates an extortionate scenario where Pharm can charge anything they want for their product to the detriment of humanity.
With all that said, there is very little benefit for Pharma to push out an ineffective or harmful drug. Sure, things slip between the cracks sometimes, but that is by far the exception to the rule.
QuoteWith all that said, there is very little benefit for Pharma to push out an ineffective or harmful drug. Sure, things slip between the cracks sometimes, but that is by far the exception to the rule.
Apparently not unheard of for pharmaceuticals to release a drug (that works, but might cause massive headaches or some other side effect) so they can release another one that will minimize the side effects of the first.. (or so I'm told by someone who did a thesis on this - I have no evidence).
Quote from: Willybomb on December 14, 2020, 01:18:10 AM
QuoteWith all that said, there is very little benefit for Pharma to push out an ineffective or harmful drug. Sure, things slip between the cracks sometimes, but that is by far the exception to the rule.
Apparently not unheard of for pharmaceuticals to release a drug (that works, but might cause massive headaches or some other side effect) so they can release another one that will minimize the side effects of the first.. (or so I'm told by someone who did a thesis on this - I have no evidence).
It's pretty cynical to assume that side effects are actually purposefully
designed into an otherwise effective drug. Pharma is pretty evil, but not as evil as the tobacco industry ;). Without any evidence as support I would personally not put much faith in such a story.
Quote from: WormBoy on December 14, 2020, 04:59:14 PM
Quote from: Willybomb on December 14, 2020, 01:18:10 AM
QuoteWith all that said, there is very little benefit for Pharma to push out an ineffective or harmful drug. Sure, things slip between the cracks sometimes, but that is by far the exception to the rule.
Apparently not unheard of for pharmaceuticals to release a drug (that works, but might cause massive headaches or some other side effect) so they can release another one that will minimize the side effects of the first.. (or so I'm told by someone who did a thesis on this - I have no evidence).
It's pretty cynical to assume that side effects are actually purposefully designed into an otherwise effective drug. Pharma is pretty evil, but not as evil as the tobacco industry ;). Without any evidence as support I would personally not put much faith in such a story.
Yeah, I'd agree. There is no financial incentive for a drug company to do something like that. I am sure that there have been times that, after collecting patient data for a while, they have released new versions of drugs with fewer side effects or other improvements. Which, good for them in that case.
I don't think they'd sit on a potentially better version of something out of fear that a competitor might release a better drug anyway.
(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/viral_vector_immunity.png)
My favorite thing of the year to date :-)
My mother-in-law tested positive a month ago. She's ultra careful and only goes out when absolutely necessary, so it's something of a mystery how she got it. But, she had no symptoms at all and never even would have known other than that she has been getting tested once a month because she's in a "critical" demographic due to her age.
A good college friend's mom is likely going to die in the next few days from the virus. She's now intubated and on a ventilator.
Multiple of my wife's work colleagues have parents that have been hospitalized. A few have died.
My parents have several friends who have been hospitalized with the virus, and some have died.
It's real shit.
Quote from: DLW on November 24, 2020, 09:14:35 PM
Immunologist here. The vaccine data are better than anyone could have hoped for. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are very similar platforms (mRNA), so in essence, they are independent confirmations of each other. While the US has been an absolute shitshow for CoV2, this same shitshow is ideal for clinical trials. You need circulating virus and cases to test a vaccine. The US has plenty of that, which accelerated the trials beyond expectations. The Astroazeneca vaccine is promising, too. Early data indicate that it has slightly lower efficacy (albeit, really good), but it is more stable and cheaper to produce. It seems this will be the form that much of the world will receive.
It's safe to say that we've moved beyond a vaccine challenge and progress to the second stage- a vaccination challenge.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Stay strong.
Hey @DLW Can you shed some light on the J+J vaccine for me? It seems news media is pushing that people shouldn't vaccine shop or that the J+J is just as good as the pfizer and moderna vaccines, yet it's supposedly much less effective. I get that from a public health standpoint, they're looking at the more vaccinated people the better but I'd still rather not have the J+J vs the alternative.
It's hard to deny that the Prizer/Moderna vaccines are better (i.e. effective) than J&J. How much more effective is debatable, because it is not possible to directly compare each of the trial data with one another. With that said, the most important outcomes, preventing hospitalization and death, are likely similar between all three vaccines.
Public health people/organizations are pushing the J&J vaccine, because it accomplishes the most important goal; get as many people vaccinated as soon as possible. They also probably want to avoid a class war that would happen if only the most powerful and wealthy in society received the best vaccines. My personal opinion...if I was in a high risk group, I would definitely get the P or M vaccine (which many high risk people have already done and will continue to do). Otherwise, i would take the first vaccine offered to me.
*Note* NONE of these vaccines are harmful. Only a handful (i.e. ~20 out of 50 million) of people experience serious reactions. The nonexistent to mild side effects from the vaccine are more dependent on your own immune system than the vaccine itself.
This necro bump is also a fantastic reminder that ~50 million people have been vaccinated in the US. There have been a very small number of severe, but treatable, reactions to vaccination. With 50 million more data points, we now know for sure that the initial trials accurately determined, if not underestimated, vaccine effectiveness.
The mRNA vaccine is the greatest scientific achievement in at least 50 years.
Quote from: DLW on March 02, 2021, 07:59:42 PM
The mRNA vaccine is the greatest scientific achievement in at least 50 years.
In that case I'm sure you'd like to learn that the vaccine isn't actually a Pfizer invention, it's from the small (compared to Pfizer anyway) company BioNtech in Germany. Its inventor is a son of turkish immigrants named Uğur Şahin, who is also one of the founders. Pfizer simply supplies production capabilites and logistics for distribution. I find it interesting how rarely this gets appreciated, instead it's always "the Pffizer vaccine" when talked about by Americans or the media.
Quote from: DLW on March 02, 2021, 07:55:49 PM
if I was in a high risk group, I would definitely get the P or M vaccine (which many high risk people have already done and will continue to do). Otherwise, i would take the first vaccine offered to me.
Thanks. You hit on right what I was trying to figure out. It's not like I'm gonna have any choice which vaccine I get though.
Quote from: TFZ on March 02, 2021, 08:13:24 PM
Quote from: DLW on March 02, 2021, 07:59:42 PM
The mRNA vaccine is the greatest scientific achievement in at least 50 years.
In that case I'm sure you'd like to learn that the vaccine isn't actually a Pfizer invention, it's from the small (compared to Pfizer anyway) company BioNtech in Germany. Its inventor is a son of turkish immigrants named Uğur Şahin, who is also one of the founders. Pfizer simply supplies production capabilites and logistics for distribution. I find it interesting how rarely this gets appreciated, instead it's always "the Pffizer vaccine" when talked about by Americans or the media.
You would think people would have their facts in order before firing off a condescending reply...
Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman are consensus co-discoverers of mRNA vaccine technology and have been developing the mRNA vaccines for 15+ years- long before Pfizer, BioNTech, or Moderna. Their research was largely performed in the US and funded by US tax payers.
Uğur Şahin is an oncologist that founded BioNTech in 2008 (note the first mRNA paper was published in Science in 1990...by researchers at UW-Madison). BioNTech doesn't have any bigger role in "the discovery" of the mRNA vaccine than Pfizer, and to say "a son of immigrants invented the mRNA vaccine" is a fairy tale. In fact, i'd say the senior vice president of BioNTech had a bigger role in the discovery of mRNA vaccines... that's right, the senior VP of BioNTech is Katalin Kariko.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243
So the Texas Governor removed the mask mandate today
Golly gee, how friggin great.
SMH
Quote from: DLW on March 02, 2021, 09:16:18 PM
Quote from: TFZ on March 02, 2021, 08:13:24 PM
Quote from: DLW on March 02, 2021, 07:59:42 PM
The mRNA vaccine is the greatest scientific achievement in at least 50 years.
In that case I'm sure you'd like to learn that the vaccine isn't actually a Pfizer invention, it's from the small (compared to Pfizer anyway) company BioNtech in Germany. Its inventor is a son of turkish immigrants named Uğur Şahin, who is also one of the founders. Pfizer simply supplies production capabilites and logistics for distribution. I find it interesting how rarely this gets appreciated, instead it's always "the Pffizer vaccine" when talked about by Americans or the media.
You would think people would have their facts in order before firing off a condescending reply...
Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman are consensus co-discoverers of mRNA vaccine technology and have been developing the mRNA vaccines for 15+ years- long before Pfizer, BioNTech, or Moderna. Their research was largely performed in the US and funded by US tax payers.
Uğur Şahin is an oncologist that founded BioNTech in 2008 (note the first mRNA paper was published in Science in 1990...by researchers at UW-Madison). BioNTech doesn't have any bigger role in "the discovery" of the mRNA vaccine than Pfizer, and to say "a son of immigrants invented the mRNA vaccine" is a fairy tale. In fact, i'd say the senior vice president of BioNTech had a bigger role in the discovery of mRNA vaccines... that's right, the senior VP of BioNTech is Katalin Kariko.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243
I was talking about the particular vaccine, I specifically said "the Pfizer vaccine", not the technology per se. Your anger seems to be misplaced, nothing of what I wrote was condescending in any way, I was merely stating a fact that many are overlooking.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/10/europe/biontech-pfizer-vaccine-team-couple-intl/index.html
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-biontech-founder-ugur-sahin-says-first-uk-patients-could-be-vaccinated-next-month-12130523
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/biontech-the-european-company-behind-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine.html
https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other/meet-the-couple-who-invented-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine/ar-BB1aUJG7
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13153699/pfizer-covid-vaccine-biontech-ugur-sahin-ozlem-tureci/
Quote from: DLW on March 02, 2021, 07:59:42 PM
The mRNA vaccine is the greatest scientific achievement in at least 50 years.
Heresy! Surely the greatest scientific achievement in recent history is the sequencing of the centaur diode genome... or maybe it was those sequences at the beginning of Baba O'Riley.
But in all seriousness it's an amazing achievement.
it's quite incredible how much we have been able to achieve in the past century. 100 years ago half the homes in the US didn't even have electricity, but now we can listen to sounds recorded on a different planet. That's a big leap in a small amount of time.
Quote from: Matmosphere on March 03, 2021, 12:47:45 AMHeresy! Surely the greatest scientific achievement in recent history is the sequencing of the centaur diode genome... or maybe it was those sequences at the beginning of Baba O'Riley.
But in all seriousness it's an amazing achievement.
it's quite incredible how much we have been able to achieve in the past century. 100 years ago half the homes in the US didn't even have electricity, but now we can listen to sounds recorded on a different planet. That's a big leap in a small amount of time.
Haha! Before Louis CK was ostracized (rightfully, I guess)...
Yes rightfully, but also by his own choice which was probably pretty smart of him.