Anyone else get the Covid Vaccine?

[pickdropper]

Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

I think a lot of people thought the vaccine would provide sterilizing immunity, like the smallpox and measles vaccines do.  It would be wonderful if it did, but unfortunately it does not.  Therefore, there's likely going to be a bit of a balancing act about when to lock down to minimize damage and when to keep things open.  With so many folks not vaccinated, it further complicates the calculation.  Since we're still learning in real time, it's likely not always going to be smooth.

I think the main thing is trying to avoid the full industry shutdowns that we saw in 2020 if at all possible.  The global supply chain is really messed up and it might take 1-2 years to stabilize even if there are no further shutdowns.  There are a lot of partial shutdowns going on in parts of Asia right now as the vaccine supply still isn't where it needs to be globally.  It's going to be a mess for a while, I fear.  The effect of all of this will be more than just financial, so hopefully things even out soon.

[alanp]

I've stopped watching or reading the news, or any TV....

I'm feeling muucchhh better now.

Yeah, me too. The business model of the news these days seems to be to generate traffic through click bait. And constantly scaring us, or making us angry seems to be the best click bait.

I heard a good term for this kinda stuff -- "panic porn".

The other thing to remember is that journalists are people, too, with their own deeply held beliefs (whether that is Christian values, or completely open borders, or a love of Marx and Engels), so you should read multiple sources on the same topic, and try to pull together what's going on as an aggregate.

[Rockhorst]

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

To be fair Muadzin, I'd say the Netherlands are 90% opened up right now. The only thing I see with much restrictions is outdoor festivals and university. Let's see what the fall brings. I'm fine with getting the vaccine and even getting a booster shot while we figure out how to solve this thing. It's funny how all those scenarios painted at the beginning of the pandemic are coming true, yet people act surprised.

[DLW]

Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

I think a lot of people thought the vaccine would provide sterilizing immunity, like the smallpox and measles vaccines do.  It would be wonderful if it did, but unfortunately it does not.  Therefore, there's likely going to be a bit of a balancing act about when to lock down to minimize damage and when to keep things open.  With so many folks not vaccinated, it further complicates the calculation.  Since we're still learning in real time, it's likely not always going to be smooth.

I think the main thing is trying to avoid the full industry shutdowns that we saw in 2020 if at all possible.  The global supply chain is really messed up and it might take 1-2 years to stabilize even if there are no further shutdowns.  There are a lot of partial shutdowns going on in parts of Asia right now as the vaccine supply still isn't where it needs to be globally.  It's going to be a mess for a while, I fear.  The effect of all of this will be more than just financial, so hopefully things even out soon.

I agree with your overall sentiment, so please don't take this the wrong way... almost no person with a solid understanding of the immune system expected sterilizing immunity any of the CoV2/COVID19 vaccines without high vaccination rates. All vaccines, including those against CoV2, improve immunity thereby resisting infection and reducing symptoms in individuals. The efficacy ranges at the individual level ranges from sterilizing to significantly reduced symptoms (i.e. MASSIVELY decreased risk of hospitalization and death). However, vaccines only reach "sterilizing" at the population level once a large enough proportion of the population has been vaccinated- this is the real concept of herd immunity. CoV2/COVID19 continues to cause problems purely because not enough people chose (when readily available) to be vaccinated and not at all because the vaccine is ineffective.

Actually, your mention of sterilizing effect of the measles vaccine is a great demonstration of what I just said. In 2017, an anti-vaxx sentiment polluted the Somali-American community in Minneapolis. The largest outbreak of measles in 30 years ensued, and ~20% of the 80 new infections were in vaccinated individuals. The same vaccine that provided sterilizing immunity to a population was compromised by a significant number of people that were corrupted by anti-vaccine propaganda.

[gordo]

Well said.

[Aentons]

A buddy of mine has fully resisted getting vaccinated because his (mis)understanding was that "you can still get covid and give it to others, so what's the point?". His wife finally threatened to leave him if he didn't. He got vaccinated yesterday.

[gordo]

Sometimes we just need a little nudge...

[pickdropper]

Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

I think a lot of people thought the vaccine would provide sterilizing immunity, like the smallpox and measles vaccines do.  It would be wonderful if it did, but unfortunately it does not.  Therefore, there's likely going to be a bit of a balancing act about when to lock down to minimize damage and when to keep things open.  With so many folks not vaccinated, it further complicates the calculation.  Since we're still learning in real time, it's likely not always going to be smooth.

I think the main thing is trying to avoid the full industry shutdowns that we saw in 2020 if at all possible.  The global supply chain is really messed up and it might take 1-2 years to stabilize even if there are no further shutdowns.  There are a lot of partial shutdowns going on in parts of Asia right now as the vaccine supply still isn't where it needs to be globally.  It's going to be a mess for a while, I fear.  The effect of all of this will be more than just financial, so hopefully things even out soon.

I agree with your overall sentiment, so please don't take this the wrong way... almost no person with a solid understanding of the immune system expected sterilizing immunity any of the CoV2/COVID19 vaccines without high vaccination rates. All vaccines, including those against CoV2, improve immunity thereby resisting infection and reducing symptoms in individuals. The efficacy ranges at the individual level ranges from sterilizing to significantly reduced symptoms (i.e. MASSIVELY decreased risk of hospitalization and death). However, vaccines only reach "sterilizing" at the population level once a large enough proportion of the population has been vaccinated- this is the real concept of herd immunity. CoV2/COVID19 continues to cause problems purely because not enough people chose (when readily available) to be vaccinated and not at all because the vaccine is ineffective.

Actually, your mention of sterilizing effect of the measles vaccine is a great demonstration of what I just said. In 2017, an anti-vaxx sentiment polluted the Somali-American community in Minneapolis. The largest outbreak of measles in 30 years ensued, and ~20% of the 80 new infections were in vaccinated individuals. The same vaccine that provided sterilizing immunity to a population was compromised by a significant number of people that were corrupted by anti-vaccine propaganda.

Oh, I don't take that the wrong way at all.  My (not very well-worded) post wasn't against the efficacy of the vaccine but more about public expectations and the continued distortion of what the vaccine is actually designed to do.

Muad's comment "If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change." echos a lot of what I've heard people complain about around here.  "Why should I get the vaccine if there are still breakthrough infections" or if there are continued mask mandates or lockdowns, etc.  The vaccine isn't an immediate fix, but it's a significant help as we all work together to bring order out of chaos.  It's just going to be a process and not a switch that gets flipped.

And yes, your measles example is solid.

[alanp]

On a different note, I was told at work on Wednesday that we had to wear masks. (Wednesday was when the NZ Govt made it mandatory, rather than just a billboard saying "I'm a hypochondriac", considering that my District Health Board area had nine cases... total... and no deaths.)

I was only told today, Friday, that we're supposed to throw them out and get a new one at the start of the day. Thanks for letting me know after the one you gave me on Wednesday was starting to piss me the hell off on Friday.

In my defense, Wednesday was the first time, IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, that I had worn a mask. I don't even do halloween.

[mwelch]

I live in a sparsely populated county in East Texas.  The new infection for my county in Texas has just surpassed the high set back in January 2021.  Even though the hospitals are full of children, I still don't see much mask wearing.  When I go out to the grocery store or restaurant , I am often the only masked person.  I have been vaccinated, but I still take precautions (mask, hand washing, social distancing). 

A lot of people in my county don't trust the media and I don't trust them either, but the hospitals are filling up with COVID patients.  That is a fact that people seem to be turning a blind eye to.  The other day on the news, they reported that there are only about a dozen ICU beds available in the entire East Texas area.  I know this is true because my daughter is an ICU nurse that caught COVID back in December while taking care of patients.  Most of her co-workers caught it too.  My daughter's 40 year old husband almost died from it.   My next dooor neighbor died of COVID in early 2020.

It is real.  I have seen what it does and it is nothing to mess around with.  Get vaccinated.


PS, I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Mike

[EBK]

When I go out to the grocery store or restaurant , I am often the only masked person.  I have been vaccinated, but I still take precautions (mask, hand washing, social distancing). 

Same, but I live in a quite liberal part of Virginia ("substantial transmission" in my city).  It is stunning (to me) how rare the mask use is and how closely folks crowd together.  I have developed an unhealthy distrust of people in general, which is quite depressing. 

Echoing Mike, I also hope I don't offend anyone with my comments.  I'm not looking to fight or insisting that I am always right.

[jimilee]

When I go out to the grocery store or restaurant , I am often the only masked person.  I have been vaccinated, but I still take precautions (mask, hand washing, social distancing). 

Same, but I live in a quite liberal part of Virginia ("substantial transmission" in my city).  It is stunning (to me) how rare the mask use is and how closely folks crowd together.  I have developed an unhealthy distrust of people in general, which is quite depressing. 

Echoing Mike, I also hope I don't offend anyone with my comments.  I'm not looking to fight or insisting that I am always right.

Same here in Chattanooga, I just don't get it. Me and the misses stay home as much as we can and wear our masks when we have to go somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matmosphere]

Never mind.

[davent]

This story popped up all over the place yesterday.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-19/gulf-coasts-beloved-redneck-riviera-now-a-virus-hotspot
dave

[alanp]

I should possibly clarify my mask comment earlier -- I live in New Zealand, and we never had any "wild outbreaks" of covid to really need masks. Social distancing is necessary, though, and has been for the length of the pandemic.

The new mask mandate here is due to the increased infectiousness of the Delta variant (a news report states that it was transferred from one room of people to another... when two doors were opened at the same time for three to five seconds), combined with the fact that the authorities have not been able to find the case linking the community outbreaks of Delta in Wellington and Auckland to the border quarantine case with Delta. A third factor is that a lot of the community cases travelled around their home area... a lot... visiting places like theatres, shopping centers, and university lecture halls, all high traffic, high density areas.

As for the complaining, I think that people are starting to feel the flow-on economic effects of shutting down most things in the industrial sector, and also the supply issues are starting to become more apparent.