Author Topic: The Red Baron flies again...  (Read 798 times)

cooder

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The Red Baron flies again...
« on: December 17, 2019, 09:30:05 PM »
Haven't been building for awhile because I was busy with making music and touring, which is a good excuse in my book.
So back into it here's a fun screamin' box, need to play Snoopy's White Xmas on that now me thinks...
Pedalpcb boards of Distortion 250 into Backfeeder / Boss DF-2 Feedbacker.
Relay switching bypass, acrylic faceplate over laser waterdecal.





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alanp

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2019, 09:34:31 PM »
Nice, very nice. What does the Feedbacker do? (Heh, now I want to listen to the Boris album _Feedbacker_.)

Also, what make is the CD4013 flipflop?
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Leevibe

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2019, 10:01:48 PM »
I love the blacked out innards. Something Iíve contemplated. Nice as usual!

benny_profane

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2019, 10:35:59 PM »
The board size discrepancy is hilarious there. Brilliant build (as always), cooder. I double took that 3PDT since I’m always expecting relay bypass!

And Boris rules...definitely listen to feedbacker!!!!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2019, 10:38:03 PM by benny_profane »

cooder

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2019, 10:37:38 PM »
Nice, very nice. What does the Feedbacker do? (Heh, now I want to listen to the Boris album _Feedbacker_.)

Also, what make is the CD4013 flipflop?
Best is to check out some youtube vids on it to get the idea. It holds and kinda sustains the note when middle temporary footswitch is held going into feedback of sorts. Fun gadget, not too sure how much real use I get out of it, but as usual curiosity killed the cat and I had to build it to give it a whirl. And why not.
I would have the foggiest idea about which make the CD4013 is, had it for yonks in my stash and dunno where I ordered it from. Maybe someone else can identify...
I love the blacked out innards. Something Iíve contemplated. Nice as usual!
Cheers Lee. I blacked the inside also because it's a repurposed enclosure that had some holes drilled and filled. But I also like the look. Not that it sounds any darker... Lol...
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cooder

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2019, 10:40:44 PM »
The board size discrepancy is hilarious there. Brilliant build (as always), cooder. I double took that 3PDT since Iím always expecting relay bypass!

And Boris rules...definitely listen to feedbacker!!!!
Yes board size and parts count is a bit on both ends of the scale.... The 3PDT is just because it needs a momentary one. No relay bypass in that particular case for the feedback function.
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Bio77

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2019, 12:48:22 AM »
That's killer!

What transistors did you use for the feedbacker? 

RDL68

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2019, 03:34:17 AM »
That CD4013...is actually a "G"D4013B. The "GS" on it is the brand.
It gets confusing because Goldstar make that model, but they usually print "Goldstar" on it.
LG also make them & they usually print "LGS" on it. (LG Semicon).
There's also "Globaltech Semiconductor". I'm not 100% sure, although I suspect the GS stands for Globaltech Semiconductor.
Hynix have also made that model, big brand that can have their own name or a licensee brand printed on it.
When it gets to "C"D4013's, there's so many brands...
I wondered about it too when I saw it because I had to mess about with 4013's early this year for a fussy circuit, which meant researching the subtle differences between models/brands. Normally I've just used whatever brand on hand prior to that as they're generally compatible.

jimilee

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2019, 08:58:48 AM »
I love the art work and the font style. Acrylic plate is a nice touch.


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Adam_MD

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2019, 06:24:38 PM »
I don't know why I love those yellow 1n4148 so much but I do.

cooder

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2019, 06:39:34 PM »
That's killer!

What transistors did you use for the feedbacker?
Cheers and good question, Sir! I have the early V 1 board here (which tells you that I had it lying around for a loooong time before finishing it). This had the footprint for the2SC732 mixed up so that a normal 2N5088 did it in their place. The 2SC2603 I subbed with 2SC1815 after double checking this with BuGG. So if you happen to have this board or wanna get one best double check with BuGG which version you have there and which substitution would be right for you. This one seems to work for mine here.
That CD4013...is actually a "G"D4013B. The "GS" on it is the brand.
It gets confusing because Goldstar make that model, but they usually print "Goldstar" on it.
LG also make them & they usually print "LGS" on it. (LG Semicon).
There's also "Globaltech Semiconductor". I'm not 100% sure, although I suspect the GS stands for Globaltech Semiconductor.
Hynix have also made that model, big brand that can have their own name or a licensee brand printed on it.
When it gets to "C"D4013's, there's so many brands...
I wondered about it too when I saw it because I had to mess about with 4013's early this year for a fussy circuit, which meant researching the subtle differences between models/brands. Normally I've just used whatever brand on hand prior to that as they're generally compatible.

See there you go I never thought or new that far... and I dunno if grabbing another make would be different in sound, I might have a look in my stash and see if I have another one lying around to try. I didn't have much chance to use it yet.
I love the art work and the font style. Acrylic plate is a nice touch.


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Cheers Jimi!
I don't know why I love those yellow 1n4148 so much but I do.
Yep they are somehow tasty. Got them from Paul DIYguitarpedals in OZ. Paul is a great dude!
http://www.diyguitarpedals.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=9
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Bio77

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2019, 06:52:00 PM »
That's killer!

What transistors did you use for the feedbacker?
Cheers and good question, Sir! I have the early V 1 board here (which tells you that I had it lying around for a loooong time before finishing it). This had the footprint for the2SC732 mixed up so that a normal 2N5088 did it in their place. The 2SC2603 I subbed with 2SC1815 after double checking this with BuGG. So if you happen to have this board or wanna get one best double check with BuGG which version you have there and which substitution would be right for you. This one seems to work for mine here.


Thanks for the info.  I've had this one built up for awhile now, but I can't get rid of the background noise.  I'm thinking the transistors might be the culprit. 

RDL68

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2019, 12:50:56 AM »
Cooder, with 4013's, I'm far from being an expert, but I think they're more used for switching & timing functions, so not a major influence on sound as say an op-amp.
I reckon if your 4013 works as is, not worth swapping around.
Actually, an op-amp would be a good example to make a quick point. Some circuits use a TL072. And most of us here would've changed them out for Burr Browns or whatever else to experiment or even in situations where anything on hand will do to make something work. They do change the sound a bit one way or another, some more than others, for better or worse. However, there are some circuits that say TL072 & stress that you can't use Burr Browns due to various differences in how they work, even though the pinout is identical, everything from latency to slight differences in voltage requirements to whatever else may be too different & cause total chaos with a circuit.

By the way, you did a great job with it. I haven't had a go of a Boss Feedbacker Distortion for ages. I remember doing riffs & holding down the footswitch to make the last sustained note scream, almost like an octave up or whatever it does (feedbacking amp I guess). I think I'd be too uncoordinated to do it at a gigging level, but it was great fun to mess with when I had a lend of one.

cooder

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2019, 02:56:42 AM »
Cooder, with 4013's, I'm far from being an expert, but I think they're more used for switching & timing functions, so not a major influence on sound as say an op-amp.
I reckon if your 4013 works as is, not worth swapping around.
Actually, an op-amp would be a good example to make a quick point. Some circuits use a TL072. And most of us here would've changed them out for Burr Browns or whatever else to experiment or even in situations where anything on hand will do to make something work. They do change the sound a bit one way or another, some more than others, for better or worse. However, there are some circuits that say TL072 & stress that you can't use Burr Browns due to various differences in how they work, even though the pinout is identical, everything from latency to slight differences in voltage requirements to whatever else may be too different & cause total chaos with a circuit.

By the way, you did a great job with it. I haven't had a go of a Boss Feedbacker Distortion for ages. I remember doing riffs & holding down the footswitch to make the last sustained note scream, almost like an octave up or whatever it does (feedbacking amp I guess). I think I'd be too uncoordinated to do it at a gigging level, but it was great fun to mess with when I had a lend of one.
Cheers for the insight, I dunno much about the innards and workings of op amps, so much appreciated. I have been experimenting in some circuits with different opamps like the TL072 pin equivalents and yes I found it can make a noticable difference at times or at least I felt like hearing a difference. Always subjective anyway.
It is a fun circuit the feedbacker, I'm also not sure how much practical use I get out of it but it is deffo a good tool for fun mayhem.
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RDL68

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Re: The Red Baron flies again...
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2019, 04:23:13 AM »
Basically, a 4013 isn't really an audio signal processor, it just controls bits that are, but an op-amp sure is (they're full of micro resistors, capacitors, transistors like a real amp). Mostly if the pins match they'll work (for most of our builds at least), just in very rare odd situations they don't, as I found out with both types of chips.

With op-amps, using the Ibanez Sonic Distortion as an example, the original op-amp in that is very compressed sounding. Some prefer to swap it out for something that isn't, so depending what they use instead, it might get them more clarity or transparency, better frequency response, less noise etc. Swapping 4013's wont make any difference I can see, unless a circuit has been designed to utilize those slight differences, in which case a build doc will list the suffix & warn you not to stray from that.
 
I was amazed to see that old Boss effect done in a build though. Maybe it was a love it or hate it pedal from Boss at the time, but I really enjoyed playing around with it. Rarely ever hear them mentioned anymore. I was impressed at the time how Boss managed to use the bypass switch to control the feedbacker as well. I think it was a quick press for distortion bypass or hold it down for the Feedbacker aspect to kick in. Using a separate switch is a better idea now, so there's no clumsy mistakes.
My sister-in-law was always obsessed with Snoopy, collected anything to do with the character, she would've loved this build too.