Author Topic: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation  (Read 30106 times)

aballen

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
    • View Profile
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 12:22:05 PM »
I still dont see SDX documentation.  What size enclosure will it fit?

garfo

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • Nuno
    • View Profile
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 12:25:40 PM »
This is the first tine i hear about multi layer caps.can anyone ine show me how they look like.i dont thunk i can get them from banzai in eutope.

neiloler

  • Solder Ninja
  • ****
  • Posts: 249
    • View Profile
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 01:17:39 PM »
The Deluxe will fit a BB size box, per the chart on page 3 of the Zero Point Double Delay project notes.
OLERAudio - Sole proprietor, engineer, and goofball

Haberdasher

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 3131
  • "El Duder-ino"
    • View Profile
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 01:18:23 PM »
This is the first tine i hear about multi layer caps.can anyone ine show me how they look like.i dont thunk i can get them from banzai in eutope.

they also go by the name "monolithic" caps if I'm not mistaken.  most of them look about like this

Looking for a discontinued madbean board?  Check out my THREAD

FABBED PCB's FOR SALE:
Now carrying Matched JFETS

RobA

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 1871
    • View Profile
    • Music Unfolding
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 01:33:46 PM »
You want the C0G NP0 variety. But, I can't find any in 1F. I've checked Mouser, Avnet, and Digi-Key. Anyone know where to get these?
Affiliations: Music Unfolding (musicunfolding.com), software based effects and Rockit Frog (rock.it-frog.com), DIY effects (coming soon).


RobA

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 1871
    • View Profile
    • Music Unfolding
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 02:14:31 PM »
Those are the X7R dielectrics. But, I now see that they only make the C0G's up to 0.1F. Hmm, I think I will try the MKS02 in the 1F position too. Although Mouser's price on the 1.0F WIMA's is nuts.
Affiliations: Music Unfolding (musicunfolding.com), software based effects and Rockit Frog (rock.it-frog.com), DIY effects (coming soon).

Peteyboy

  • Transistor Tickler
  • **
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2013, 02:15:14 PM »
You want the C0G NP0 variety. But, I can't find any in 1F. I've checked Mouser, Avnet, and Digi-Key. Anyone know where to get these?

I don't think they make C0G/NP0 MLCC caps that are greater than about .1uF.

Here's a good chart quickly covering tradeoffs between different types of caps:
http://www.holystonecaps.com/PDF/TechNotes/200712181125470.Capdielectriccomp3.pdf

Haberdasher

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 3131
  • "El Duder-ino"
    • View Profile
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2013, 02:17:37 PM »
also here, I think: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/monolithic-ceramic-capacitor/1uf-50v-multilayer-ceramic-capacitor.html

edit: I actually have some of those caps from tayda in front of me now.  The lead spacing is 5mm but they are bowed out just like in the pic.  All you'd have to do is straighten them and they'd work fine for 2.5mm.  Assuming they are still selling the same caps, of course.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 02:24:31 PM by Haberdasher »
Looking for a discontinued madbean board?  Check out my THREAD

FABBED PCB's FOR SALE:
Now carrying Matched JFETS

njkke

  • Stompbox Star
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
    • View Profile
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2013, 02:27:49 PM »
MLCCs in Europe? I've found nothing on Musikding and Banzai 

midwayfair

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 7426
  • Jon P
    • View Profile
    • Midway Fair
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2013, 02:28:24 PM »
also here, I think: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/monolithic-ceramic-capacitor/1uf-50v-multilayer-ceramic-capacitor.html

edit: I actually have some of those caps from tayda in front of me now.  The lead spacing is 5mm but they are bowed out just like in the pic.  All you'd have to do is straighten them and they'd work fine for 2.5mm.  Assuming they are still selling the same caps, of course.

I get these from Tayda all the time.

They carry two different types, one with 2.5mm bowed legs and one with 5mm. It's impossible to know which kind you will get on any given day. Straightening the leads without breaking the cap is surprisingly hard. The material is very brittle.

Also, their 100nF monolithics are always 5mm lead spacing, so you'd need to get them through somewhere like mouser regardless.

Mouser's not horrible and the ZP Mini requires 1/8Wq resistors. I've got the parts for three builds of it plus more in my cart right now and it's under $13, plus whatever first class shipping is ($4 at most?).

RobA

  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 1871
    • View Profile
    • Music Unfolding
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2013, 02:40:25 PM »
You want the C0G NP0 variety. But, I can't find any in 1F. I've checked Mouser, Avnet, and Digi-Key. Anyone know where to get these?

I don't think they make C0G/NP0 MLCC caps that are greater than about .1uF.

Here's a good chart quickly covering tradeoffs between different types of caps:
http://www.holystonecaps.com/PDF/TechNotes/200712181125470.Capdielectriccomp3.pdf


You are right about the limitation to 0.1F for the C0G caps. I hadn't noticed this before. Oh well. There are some good articles out there about the distortion levels from various dielectric materials for the MLCC's. Places like Wolfson, Analog devices, etc. generally advise against using anything but C0G in the signal path. But, that's not going to work for the 1F caps.

I'd seriously look into using the WIMA MKS02's in these 1090A builds. In Europe, Banzai has them for reasonable prices. Mouser has most values for OK prices, put the $2 apiece for the 1F is a bit much.

Here's an article that give measurements,
http://www.edn.com/contents/images/6430345.pdf
Affiliations: Music Unfolding (musicunfolding.com), software based effects and Rockit Frog (rock.it-frog.com), DIY effects (coming soon).

madbean

  • Administrator
  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 11070
  • Brian
    • View Profile
    • madbeanpedals
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 03:06:05 PM »
I use the XR7 1uFs often and have never had a bad result with them. Actually, I did a Klon build using similar MLCC caps and it was one of the best sounding I've built....for purely anecdotal evidence of course.

Also, remember the 2.5mm requirement in only for four of the caps on the Micro build, and none of them are 1uF. It's explained in the doc.

madbean

  • Administrator
  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 11070
  • Brian
    • View Profile
    • madbeanpedals
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 03:12:23 PM »
Also, you can easily substitute a mini Lelon 1uF electrolytic or a 16v Tantalum for the 1uFs in the signal path if you like. These are about the same size and will fit no problem.

madbean

  • Administrator
  • Electron Doctor
  • *****
  • Posts: 11070
  • Brian
    • View Profile
    • madbeanpedals
Re: 01.23.13 - Zero Point documentation
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 03:17:50 PM »
All documentation has been uploaded. Let me know if anything is amiss.