The Official Coronavirus Discussion

[Bio77]

Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

I agree, in general, with the sediment, this is a place to think about pedals, and I enjoy that.  However, the politics in the US are more extreme than they have been in 50+ years, right now. It's nice to check in with a group of smart people and get a bearing, occasionally.  You can't get that on most of the internet and I'm glad to get it here. I think folks here are respectful and thoughtful; discussions can be actually productive, which doesn't happen enough.

[jimilee]

If a bit of negativity gets introduced, it turns into bashing one group or another. Pretty soon it's like the purge and that's what we're looking to avoid.  Now I'm going to go strap PCBs to my face.


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[matmosphere]

If a bit of negativity gets introduced, it turns into bashing one group or another. Pretty soon it's like the purge and that's what we're looking to avoid.  Now I'm going to go strap PCBs to my face.


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Just be careful Jimi, I know you'll be tempted to use phasers, but compressors will probably have a better seal and be more effect. I don't want to see you turn out like that guy who stuck a bunch of Rats to his face.

[jimilee]

If a bit of negativity gets introduced, it turns into bashing one group or another. Pretty soon it's like the purge and that's what we're looking to avoid.  Now I'm going to go strap PCBs to my face.


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Just be careful Jimi, I know you'll be tempted to use phasers, but compressors will probably have a better seal and be more effect. I don't want to see you turn out like that guy who stuck a bunch of Rats to his face.

Ooohhh good point.


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[davent]

According to this article there's $10 billion cdn in just cross border retail sales in the area i live in, west end of Lake Ontario.

Article (early June) by two U.S. profs at universities in New York state.

COVID-19 response highlights major differences between U.S. and Canada: U.S. profs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/american-canadian-covid-1.5596226
dave

[midwayfair]

Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

I agree, in general, with the sediment, this is a place to think about pedals, and I enjoy that.  However, the politics in the US are more extreme than they have been in 50+ years, right now. It's nice to check in with a group of smart people and get a bearing, occasionally.  You can't get that on most of the internet and I'm glad to get it here. I think folks here are respectful and thoughtful; discussions can be actually productive, which doesn't happen enough.

Folks, I know that the pandemic has been politicized in general, but it would be really nice if we could avoid having a political discussion about it, however hard that might be. I think most of us see that enough elsewhere.

Again, I know it's probably difficult, but I get nervous that the quality of discussion heads downhill when people start mentioning politicians by name.

With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. This stuff is important to people's lives and having place to calmly discuss it with people here is a respite from the news, not a reiteration of it.

It seems to me a lot of days that people need to actually have civil discussions about what is going on in the news. People don't synthesize information as well from just hearing it. Discussions help people process information and helps to clear up misconceptions about things.

I don't think it's healthy to avoid talking about things because you disagree. Seems to me if we want to make things better we're going to have to figure out how to talk to each other about difficult subjects.

We seem to be able to do that here. I appreciate that about this place.

I just want to be clear: Both of you think that what follows is a calm discussion of the politics of COVID-19, and engendering a civil discussion?

He's obviously in over his head and needs to resign. I think he knows by now he's not going to get reelected, but instead of doing the honorable thing, he's just going to go into smash-and-grab mode and try to do as much as he can for himself & his friends to best position himself for post-presidency life. One that he desperately hopes does not include prison time, and ideally would involve running his own Fox News alternative network so he can continue spouting nonsense.

[matmosphere]

Yup, I do.

Sounds like one person stating their opinion. He's not being disrespectful of anybody else on here, he isn't judging anyone for disagreeing with him, he is saying how he feels. It's up to us to decide if we feel the need to engage in a civil discussion about it from there.

Don't get me wrong things can get out of hand, but that's more when people make things personal by insulting each other and whatnot. It's about being respectful of each other and recognizing that while we might not always agree about stuff that doesn't mean we can't live together.

[matmosphere]

There's an interesting article in the Washington post today about schools in parts of the world that have begun to open, or opened to finish the year in late spring.

It sounds like overall, places that are able to manage the problem well are able to manage having schools open without huge issues. It doesn't sound like there is a ton of data on it right now, but I'd say it sounds promising for areas that have things are under control overall. There are a couple of caveats though, like some of the places having success are saying full classes are 13 students, which are tiny in size compared to a lot of places in the states.

Unfortunately it seems like the consensus is still that places that are having problems controlling the outbreak should not open schools until things are more under control. 

I was talking to a friend who is a teacher today, he said his districts plan is that if a student from a school test positive then the whole school will close down and ask people to quarantine. To me that just sounds like a plan to keep the schools closed all year.

[jimilee]

Honestly, I think opening schools is asking for trouble. We've tried so hard to stay away from people and keep our family safe, mama and all. So the sending our kids to school so that they may or may not carry it home is a bit unnerving.

Hamilton county is tossing the idea around of A. Homeschool B. Staying home and learning until it's safe or C. Send them to school. Parents may have all 3 as an option. We're pushing for #2. My ex so far seems to think that Covid is no big deal and that the flu is worse because that's what her doctor told her. So, anyway, stay safe!


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[aion]

Re: the dip into politics, if people (especially mods or beans) concur that it should be off-limits in this thread then I'm not going to push back. But here's my case: At this point, four months after USA's lockdown/quarantine began, and with numbers now higher than ever, and 35 pages into this thread, I don't think it's productive to talk about COVID while tip-toeing around the political aspect of it.

States have tried (to varying degrees) everything they can, and aside from New York who has a charismatic leader that people listen to, the states are unable to make progress on their own. The reasonable and rational governor of state X says masks are good and we should wear them, but the White House says or implies they're dumb, so the governor can't get half his people to listen to his word over the president's and the problem persists.

At the end of it, there's one person standing in the way of the USA gaining ground against COVID, because so many citizens take their orders directly from him and bypass the advice of those who are closer to home. And this person is behind the following:

- "I told them, slow the testing down"
- Refusal to wear a mask or show support for those who do, until this past weekend
- Putting pressure on GA and FL to be the first states to reopen back in May
- Sitting on $14 billion granted by Congress several months ago that has so far gone un-spent
- And the reports that he was briefed about COVID late last year, November 2019 at the latest, but did nothing.

So when I said he needs to resign, I didn't mean I disagree with him politically on this or that. I mean that by this stage, he owns the COVID disaster. It's a public health crisis that he is still in charge, and we won't begin to see improvement until he is out. No one is able to step up, take the reins and fill the void of his leadership - not governors and mayors, not Congress - because he is actively pushing in the wrong direction and has too much direct influence.

Again, I'll leave it there if this is bothersome, and I certainly am not trying to stir up anything. But as Matmosphere said, this isn't in response or disagreement with anyone or any sentiments that have been shared so far. Arguing/debating is another thing entirely and I'm not eager to bring that about in any form.

[madbean]

I'm pretty much on board with everything Kevin has stated and I don't see much that's inflammatory. There are some objective truths in the handling of COVID by Trump and the Republican leadership and they are harsh.

But, to Jon's point I think this discussion on the this forum is better served by keeping focus on personal impact and the impact on our communities and societies. We'll be having this discussion for the next couple of years and there will be plenty of time to reflect on the long term consequences of the aenemic response to COVID here in the US.

To that end, I'm reading a lot about a huge housing exodus that's about to happen. Lots of missed mortgage and rent payments and coming evictions. That is kind of terrifying.

[jimilee]

Yeah, the whole housing exodus isn't going to help anything for sure. I'm afraid that it will make things worse for the virus and the homeless population as the will go hand in hand. 


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[benny_profane]

That said, my main concern is the nexus of political issues and health here. Many of the measures enacted to contain the spread I believe will prove to backfire. In many cases, health-seeking behaviors (e.g., going to the doctor or hospital) are not being promoted. Encouragingly, though, there have been great moments of communication and cooperation and we're seeing really impressive treatment and vaccine development.

Advice remains the same as any time: ensure you're practicing good health habits and focus on preventative care. Get your information from reputable sources and learn about this (and other) pathogens. I think this should also be a moment of reflection for people to evaluate the prioritization of health preparedness and response systems—both in their country and internationally. Outbreaks like this really demonstrate the connectedness of the global community and should show the importance of these systems and investment in medicine.

This seemed important to quote. This was from 28 February. We (both the US and the world) missed our opportunity to contain and eradicate this virus. It's true that it's very tenacious and the as we've learned more, we've found that it has quite the burden of disease. However, there's been a tremendous failure for public policy and public health to work together to truly combat this. The immediate effects have been devastating, and we'll be dealing with the long-term fallout for decades.

The troubling thing is that this is not the worst disease that could've happened. When we think of calamities, we often like to think of 'the big one' or near misses. Remember Hurricane Ivan? It was followed a year later by Katrina. This is not necessarily 'the big one'—we have to start to truly take this stuff seriously on local, federal, and global levels.

[culturejam]

This is not necessarily 'the big one'—we have to start to truly take this stuff seriously on local, federal, and global levels.

This has been a "bubble gum" trial run, and we failed miserably. USA leadership terrifies me with their gross incompetence and willful idiocy.

[gordo]

My view these days is that as the middle class we're deemed a disposable commodity.  Lots more where we came from.